Meeting Minutes
Chat Transcript
2025-11-21 09:05:01 From Wendy Reid to Everyone:
https://github.com/w3c-cg/atag/discussions/3
2025-11-21 09:08:33 From Mike Gifford (CivicActions) to Everyone:
https://accessible.canada.ca/creating-accessibility-standards/overview-asc-62-accessible-equitable-artificial-intelligence-systems
Noemí Fernández:❤️
2025-11-21 09:09:58 From Sambhavi Chandrashekar to Everyone:
Hi Lisa,
I had a hard time joining, finally found that I did not have connectivity LOL
Wendy Reid:😮
2025-11-21 09:10:08 From Sambhavi Chandrashekar to Everyone:
Did I miss too much? Is the intro over?
2025-11-21 09:10:19 From Wendy Reid to Everyone:
Replying to "Did I miss too much? Is the intro over?":
No, you’re just in time!
2025-11-21 09:10:42 From jason morneau-peate to Everyone:
Good morning to everyone!
Wendy Reid:👋
2025-11-21 09:11:29 From Wendy Reid to Everyone:
For those who just joined, instead of doing introductions in the call we’re doing it in a thread on GitHub: https://github.com/w3c-cg/atag/discussions/3
Courtney Leach, jason morneau-peate:❤️
2025-11-21 09:12:12 From Sambhavi Chandrashekar to Everyone:
Thank you, Wendy. Lisa just updated me 🙂
Wendy Reid:❤️
2025-11-21 09:15:50 From Simon Jones, Studio 24 to Everyone:
Hello - sorry I’m late, was travelling.
Lupe:👋
2025-11-21 09:16:04 From Hidde de Vries to Everyone:
Replying to "Hello - sorry I’m late, was travelling.":
hey Simon good to see you here!
Simon Jones, Studio 24:👋🏻
2025-11-21 09:16:47 From Hidde de Vries to Everyone:
I am not comfortable with the AI companion, would prefer human minuting!
Soren Hamby (they/them):❤️
Charles Hall, Soren Hamby (they/them):👍
2025-11-21 09:16:48 From Charles Hall to Everyone:
I prefer zero AI to be aware of my existence or data
Soren Hamby (they/them):❤️
Irwin, Daralene:💯
2025-11-21 09:16:50 From Lisa Liskovoi to Everyone:
Replying to "Hello - sorry I’m late, was travelling.":
Welcome Simon! We are forgoing intros in the meeting, Wendy set up an intros page for us on GitHub here: https://github.com/w3c-cg/atag/discussions/3
Simon Jones, Studio 24:👍🏻
2025-11-21 09:17:36 From Noemí Fernández to Everyone:
For me, it is ok with AI as a complement to our human minuting!
2025-11-21 09:18:50 From Soren Hamby (they/them) to Everyone:
I’m fine with human notes or recording that stays in group
2025-11-21 09:19:41 From Lisa Liskovoi to Everyone:
I would love to save our full Zoom transcripts for reference if possible
Mike Gifford (CivicActions), Noemí Fernández, Staniland, Laura, Lupe:👍
2025-11-21 09:20:53 From Charles Hall to Everyone:
Gemini has access to google docs without explicit permission?
2025-11-21 09:21:10 From Courtney Leach to Everyone:
Yes! Transcripts would be really helpful
2025-11-21 09:21:28 From jason morneau-peate to Everyone:
Not here
2025-11-21 09:21:28 From Soren Hamby (they/them) to Everyone:
I’m fine with transcripts
2025-11-21 09:21:32 From Noemí Fernández to Everyone:
Fine!
2025-11-21 09:21:32 From Charles Hall to Everyone:
Fine with transcripts and standard minute taking in IRC or chat
2025-11-21 09:21:35 From Staniland, Laura to Everyone:
I’m fine with it
2025-11-21 09:21:35 From Simon Jones, Studio 24 to Everyone:
No - I’m OK with it
2025-11-21 09:21:36 From Hidde de Vries to Everyone:
light opposition, it's still “AI” doing that
2025-11-21 09:21:44 From Mike Masey to Everyone:
No problem here
2025-11-21 09:21:52 From Hidde de Vries to Everyone:
with same risk of misrepresentation. So we should definitely manually check
Soren Hamby (they/them):❤️
Simon Jones, Studio 24:👍🏻
2025-11-21 09:22:19 From Staniland, Laura to Everyone:
As a woman in STEM classes, I was often put in the role of secretary during group exercises. Nowadays, I do all I can to avoid being the minutes taker/organizer/administrative person for group activities.
Soren Hamby (they/them), Virginia Balseiro, Lisa Liskovoi, Irwin, Daralene:➕
2025-11-21 09:23:10 From Wendy Reid to Everyone:
https://w3c-cg.github.io/atag/ATAG_Charter.html
2025-11-21 09:25:53 From Shawn to Everyone:
background reading for all:
Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG) Overview
https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/atag/
2025-11-21 09:25:54 From Mike Gifford (CivicActions) to Everyone:
I would also think that we should touch on what we can do to make ATAG easier to adopt. Uptake has been poor I believe as there hasn’t been demand from clients.
Soren Hamby (they/them), Lisa Liskovoi:➕
Simon Jones, Studio 24, Noemí Fernández:💯
2025-11-21 09:28:41 From Soren Hamby (they/them) to Everyone:
One question I get is about mobile authoring apps and apps that host UGC that allow authoring or editing (eg social media) and I’d love to discuss what devices are in scope more plainly for readers.
2025-11-21 09:31:52 From Charles Hall to Everyone:
Modern content management tools also have layers (rule sets, business logic, authoring, APIs, environments, etc), as well as admin rights (super user, admin, author, editor, etc.) so making the authoring tool accessible is FAR different than ATAG anticipated. We need to account for all roles and endpoints.
Mike Masey, Soren Hamby (they/them):💯
2025-11-21 09:33:44 From Jutta Treviranus to Everyone:
Replying to "I would also think that we should touch on what we...":
Agree! There were authoring tools that implemented, showing it wasn’t so difficult, but of course there was powerful resistance to implementing by influential parties. Unlike WCAG, implementing also wasn’t supported by a burgeoning industry to check and repair Web sites.
2025-11-21 09:34:15 From Mike Gifford (CivicActions) to Everyone:
But what are the incentives for the makers of authoring tools to invest in making the authoring interface adopt ATAG?
2025-11-21 09:37:55 From Simon Jones, Studio 24 to Everyone:
Replying to "But what are the incentives for the makers of auth...":
Increased users. Some of our clients like RNIB have staff who have accessibility needs so this. has become a big criteria for them when choosing a CMS. We all have access needs as we grow older too..
Soren Hamby (they/them):❤️
2025-11-21 09:38:02 From Charles Hall to Everyone:
Perhaps we start with an updated definition of an authoring tool?
Staniland, Laura, Soren Hamby (they/them), Björn Fisseler:👍
Wendy Reid:💯
2025-11-21 09:39:47 From Jutta Treviranus to Everyone:
In the last version of ATAG we considered user created content separately.
2025-11-21 09:40:06 From Lisa Liskovoi to Everyone:
Replying to "But what are the incentives for the makers of auth...":
I think this is why the policy piece is key. There are of course many benefits to having tools be accessible, but without policies and regulations there will likely be limitations to adoption.
2025-11-21 09:40:48 From Jutta Treviranus to Everyone:
Replying to "In the last version of ATAG we considered user cre...":
such as social media posts. But this has changed significantly.
2025-11-21 09:41:27 From Wendy Reid to Everyone:
Replying to "In the last version of ATAG we considered user cre...":
I think what tools are capable of now is the biggest change from 2.0, we have more power to enable people to make accessible content!
2025-11-21 09:41:55 From Mike Gifford (CivicActions) to Everyone:
@Staniland, Laura consider asking for https://acreditor.section508.gov/ rather than a VPAT (which is generally an inaccessible PDF).
2025-11-21 09:41:56 From Hidde de Vries to Everyone:
Great angle, Laura!
2025-11-21 09:41:56 From Soren Hamby (they/them) to Everyone:
Replying to "In the last version of ATAG we considered user cre...":
Now it feels like many social media apps for mobile are authoring tools with a social posting endpoint
Wendy Reid:💯
2025-11-21 09:42:43 From Mike Gifford (CivicActions) to Everyone:
Also useful to see the Higher Education Community Vendor Assessment Toolkit
https://www.educause.edu/higher-education-community-vendor-assessment-toolkit
2025-11-21 09:43:54 From Charles Hall to Everyone:
It is fair to say the world has changed dramatically and not just the technology
Soren Hamby (they/them), Mike Gifford (CivicActions), Noemí Fernández, Staniland, Laura, Wendy Reid:➕
2025-11-21 09:46:26 From Staniland, Laura to Everyone:
Replying to "Great angle, Laura!":
Thank you!
2025-11-21 09:46:59 From EJ Mason to Everyone:
Apologies, everyone. Some trouble with my router :/
2025-11-21 09:47:01 From jason morneau-peate to Everyone:
Sure has, we have a client (I worked in Fintech as a qa manager) who is in the world of loans in general and a request they have was #1 using AI #2 Accessibility standards and authoring tools and #3 combining both and the challenge there is huge and even lead us to review all qa processes
2025-11-21 09:49:13 From jason morneau-peate to Everyone:
Think of GitHub as an old forum board from 2004
2025-11-21 09:49:15 From Sarven Capadisli to Everyone:
How does authoring content via GitHub measure wrt following ATAG? =)
Charles Hall, Soren Hamby (they/them):😂
2025-11-21 09:49:36 From Wendy Reid to Everyone:
Replying to "How does authoring content via GitHub measure wrt ...":
Guess we’ll find out 😂
2025-11-21 09:49:45 From Mike Gifford (CivicActions) to Everyone:
Replying to "How does authoring content via GitHub measure wrt ...":
Definitely something to push at https://accessibility.github.com/
2025-11-21 09:49:57 From Sarven Capadisli to Everyone:
How about using... authoring tools... to author content related to ATAG =)
2025-11-21 09:50:35 From Mike Gifford (CivicActions) to Everyone:
Replying to "How does authoring content via GitHub measure wrt ...":
https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/168426
2025-11-21 09:51:15 From jason morneau-peate to Everyone:
This is a great start!
2025-11-21 09:51:21 From Jutta Treviranus to Everyone:
One systemically-motivated B to B reason for adoption is the demand by companies who are currently relying on accessibility evaluation and repair companies wanting to adopt an authoring tool that will allow them to reduce that reliance or dependence.
2025-11-21 09:52:27 From Hidde de Vries to Everyone:
excited this group is starting!
2025-11-21 09:52:30 From Mike Masey to Everyone:
Thanks for organising, It's exciting to be involved in this!
2025-11-21 09:52:40 From Shawn to Everyone:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/atag/
Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG) Overview
2025-11-21 09:52:41 From Lupe to Everyone:
Thanks so much, I’m so excited to learn from and collaborate with you all!
2025-11-21 09:52:51 From Wendy Reid to Everyone:
https://github.com/w3c-cg/atag/discussions/3
Björn Fisseler:👍
2025-11-21 09:53:07 From Simon Jones, Studio 24 to Everyone:
Thanks - this has been good, I’m looking forward to contributing 🙂
2025-11-21 09:54:09 From Charles Hall to Everyone:
I believe ATAG should focus more on the humans that need to and get to participate in the creation of content using any tool to do so via any input modality. it would be nice to have the structure focus primarily on the human needs versus the type of tool and its interfaces.
Lisa Liskovoi:👍
2025-11-21 09:54:24 From dinika to Everyone:
Shawn/Wendy could you please re-share the link about atag you mentioned here or in the meeting notes. Thanks!
2025-11-21 09:54:49 From Shawn to Everyone:
Replying to "Shawn/Wendy could you please re-share the link abo...":
https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/atag/
Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG) Overview
2025-11-21 09:54:51 From Soren Hamby (they/them) to Everyone:
I love this time
2025-11-21 09:54:59 From jason morneau-peate to Everyone:
perfect time here as well
2025-11-21 09:55:03 From Hidde de Vries to Everyone:
time++
Meeting Notes
Meeting notes kindly provided by Simon Jones.
- Intros
- https://github.com/w3c-cg/atag/discussions/3
- Sambhavi: Try to note the different perspectives we can bring to this group
- Charter
- https://w3c-cg.github.io/atag/ATAG_Charter.html
- What are you interested in, what do you want to work on?
- What are our deliverables?
- Usage documentation
- Update to ATAG
- Jutta:
- Original ATAG was 2 pieces
- Ensure tools are accessible to someone with a disability
- Accessibility by default
- Prompting and support in understanding what needed to be done
- Ways to check and fix work before its published
- Updating with current versions of WCAG
- Sarven
- I thought we're extending work
- E.g. how to improve a11y in AI building tools
- Shawn
- This is WAI so we're co-ordinated
- We have wanted to update ATAG for a while, e.g. WCAG 2.0
- Hidde
- Can we make it more actionable for authoring tool makers
- Assertions. New in WCAG 3. Helps with things that are hard to measure.
- Policy. Can we pick ATAG up more in policy. GOV.
- Focus on AI. That phrase is sometimes a litle vague.
- Laura, University of Pittsburgh
- WCAG audit, US universities need to meet standard by May 2026. None of us are ready
- VPAT, need AI tools to meet standards. Controversial
- AI is here, lots of downsides
- What is the accessibility of Claude?
- https://acreditor.section508.gov/
- https://www.educause.edu/higher-education-community-vendor-assessment-toolkit
- https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/168426
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/atag/
- https://github.com/w3c-cg/atag/discussions/3
- We'll use the wiki for casual documentation.
- WORK
- Bi-weekly meetings
- GitHub discussions